Playable Elliott

#3
looks really cool but what is the battle sprite. looks like hes dancing (swinging his hips). i dont see an arm swinging a weapon or anything.
 

Xeno

New member
#4
My interpretation of it.



Basically, Elliott does a very wide sword swing, about 270 degrees. That's a bit hard to convey with only two frames of animation... A "swoosh" effect on the sword would help smooth things out, but it wouldn't be easy to implement without programming.
 

Steve

Administrator
Staff member
#5
Apologies for the late response! I've been snowed under with work and only now starting to get on top of it.

The attack animation is meant to mimic Elliott's regular attack animation from when you fight him over on the Pao Plains.

I really appreciate the feedback, guys. I'll run some ideas by Dan and see what he can do. @Xeno It's actually quite amusing that you would use the word 'swoosh', as it is the very same adjective I use to express to Dan the sort of effect I'm after for typical enemy frames, hehe.

Here are a few options to extend and better highlight Elliott's attack animation (off the top of my head):
  • Extend his attack into three frames and add a pre-drawn 'swoosh' effect to his current Attack 2 frame and have his current Attack 2 frame moved over to Attack 3 frame.
  • Draw an entirely new Attack 2 frame to slot in between Attack 1 and the current Attack 2.
I'm open to ideas. Elliott is a favourite of mine and I'm very eager to see him made even better with your input.
 
#6
see now that you explained it, it makes sense. i can imagine now elliot is swinging his arm back then swiping forward. (just need to imagine a sword there)
 

Xeno

New member
#7
Only gingers don't like Elliott. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Right, here's some nitpicking if you insist.



1. Fingers are visible
2. Sword is angled down
3. Here, sword is angled up (Or at least, that's what the hand positioning suggests to me)
4. Fingers again? (We should see the back of his hand/gauntlet here, I think)
5. Oh and by the way, what is this?
6. Leg is raised higher

That said, I don't think the original enemy battle sprite makes a whole lot of sense in the first place, as impressive as it is. I think Dan's version is actually more anatomically correct! (Not that I'm an expert of dragonute anatomy but, you know...)

To me, rather than extending his arm in the back, the positioning of his sword and hand in the original seems to suggest an overhead swing. A very ridiculously over-stretched overhead swing, but still. Check out the remake for a clearer view of what I believe they were going for even back then:



Of course, that version fails to capture all the badassery of the original, but I think it does provide an interesting bit of information... Perhaps it could be adapted back into the original SF style that we all love? :geek:
 

Steve

Administrator
Staff member
#8
@Xeno There is no such thing as nitpicking in my book, my friend. :)

Before responding to your points. I just want to mention that while IMO Elliott was probably the toughest Force member conversion so far. Dan and I both scrutinised over every last detail, and I believe that this project also included the long design time with multiple edits and updates. Whereas we normally strive for 1-1 accuracy, I recall there existing design inaccuracies present in Sega's own spritework.

1-4: Unfortunately - at least as far as I am aware - weapon sprites can only be displayed as background objects, while the Force member sprite will always be treated as a foreground object, so the game engine will always prioritise displaying a Force member in front of a weapon sprite. Elliott's Attack #1 animation just isn't suitable from a Force Member's perspective, as while his arm positioning would suggest that he is readying the sword behind his head and back, the weapon would be greatly obscured because it will only display behind Elliott. I allowed Dan the opportunity to restyle this frame and I agree with you that it does appear like a much more natural pose when compared to Sega's efforts.

5. I am not sure if this is the correct terminology for that part of a knight's attire... but effectively it's a loincloth.

6. No arguments here! :p

Adding to what I've said before regarding Sega's original spritework, I cannot remember exactly which parts were the culprit(s), but there were many instances when Dan was returning with artwork for each frame that Sega themselves were very inconsistent with his design and we had theorised that perhaps there were multiple artists working on his complete animation. I do recall his boots and shield design being two such notable issues, but there were other areas which will probably standout if you view this spritesheet:



I am definitely in agreement regarding Elliott's artwork in the GBA remake. I personally did not care for much of the character revisions they made, but there were some instances where they did a great job that I believe would be great if ported over into the classic original. I am in the process of brainstorming a suitable Promotion design for Elliott; do you feel that the GBA remake version might make for a good base?
 
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#9
@Xeno There is no such thing as nitpicking in my book, my friend. :)

Before responding to your points. I just want to mention that while IMO Elliot was probably the toughest Force member conversion so far. Dan and I both scrutinised over every last detail, and I believe that this project also included the long design time with multiple edits and updates. Whereas we normally strive for 1-1 accuracy, I recall there existing design inaccuracies present in Sega's own spritework.

1-4: Unfortunately - at least as far as I am aware - weapon sprites can only be displayed as background objects, while the Force member sprite will always be treated as a foreground object, so the game engine will always prioritise displaying a Force member in front of a weapon sprite. Elliott's Attack #1 animation just isn't suitable from a Force Member's perspective, as while his arm positioning would suggest that he is readying the sword behind his head and back, the weapon would be greatly obscured because it will only display behind Elliott. I allowed Dan the opportunity to restyle this frame and I agree with you that it does appear like a much more natural pose when compared to Sega's efforts.

5. I am not sure if this is the correct terminology for that part of a knight's attire... but effectively it's a loincloth.

6. No arguments here! :p

Adding to what I've said before regarding Sega's original spritework, I cannot remember exactly which parts were the culprit(s), but there were many instances when Dan was returning with artwork for each frame that Sega themselves were very inconsistent with his design and we had theorised that perhaps there were multiple artists working on his complete animation. I do recall his boots and shield design being two such notable issues, but there were other areas which will probably standout if you view this spritesheet:



I am definitely in agreement regarding Elliott's artwork in the GBA remake. I personally did not care for much of the character revisions they made, but there were some instances where they did a great job that I believe would be great if ported over into the classic original. I am in the process of brainstorming a suitable Promotion design for Elliott; do you feel that the GBA remake version might make for a good base?
A promoted Elliot??? That will be interesting to see
 

Steve

Administrator
Staff member
#10
Yeah, I've been using the helmeted version of Elliott for his promoted state, but I'm thinking we can do him more justice by giving him some bespoke artwork. I'm considering basing it partially on his GBA design, but what do you think?
 

Xeno

New member
#11
@Steve Uh, right, I should've figured that you guys knew what you were doing. :oops: I mean, the sprite is great looking as it is and doesn't even need to be "fixed" per se. It's true that the animation system in SF1 is a bit limited... but it's nothing that can't be fixed with a bit of voodoo ASM magic. :sneaky:

About point #5, right, I can see it now. The lower part of his tabard is being kicked up by his left knee. Gotcha!

As for a promotion, well, the dude's already a General... what else is there above that? :unsure:
 
#15
Elliott is promoteable too?!?! This is awesome! Will he keep his regeneration ability?

At the very least I do hope he will have good stats. I want to have a reason to use him over other characters that I would normally be using.